Lets Talk Chargers

[Midnightsun]

Thanks, kinda just assumed that the 60a was the biggest since most brands seem to end their offerings at 60a however after some searching there definitely are higher amp units out there.

[Viper]

The Pronautic is a good charger, I've installed countless units and while less than a handful failed prematurely, the failure rate is very small and no worse than any other brand that I've installed. They have some great features too. Their biggest enemy, like all electronics, is line voltage. While they deal well with low voltage supply and actually have options to customize output based on such, they're susceptible to poor utility regulation, marina conditions, and natural phenomenon such as lightening. But that's all smart chargers and any on-board equipment that has a circuit board. While ferroresonant chargers had their downsides, they were very robust and certainly better at handling this particular issue. BTW, don't right off ferroresonant chargers, they've made some advances in recent years that are slowly making them more attractive but aren't quite there yet IMO and may never be simply due to physics but they're not the same as they were years ago. Having said that, they now incorporate circuitry to overcome some of the old downfalls which I suspect makes them just as susceptible to the same conditions affecting fully electronic smart units.

I would also recommend going with the 60A unit if you're upgrading. As Bud said, the math isn't as simple as it seems to replenish in a timely manner what's been drained. Consider it carefully as now's the time to upgrade. If you do decide to upgrade output (or not), measure the length of each circuit and see if the wire will handle full charger output. That's taking the length of each bank's charge wire and the single return ground back to the charge. This must be done for each bank. Use the size of wire for all banks that was calculated for the longest run. Don't worry about the AC supply wire, it should be sufficient for the 50 and 60A units but just to be sure in case someone screwed up, ensure that it is at least 14/3 wire. Read the instructions carefully and you MUST install the chassis ground wire. Your current unit may or may not already have one but it too must be a specific size for the application. Each bank's output needs to be fused, this may already be part of your vessel's charge circuitry. And you'll have a temp probe to install.

There is such a thing as too much charger for the bank in a given application. Outputs that are too high for the bank size will fry batteries. Your typical charger isn't much of a concern as they're typically between 20 and 60 amps on average but inverter/charger units can get into the 100's of amps output. This is fine for very large inverter banks but I've seen high output inverter/chargers with small banks, not good.

I would also recommend installing the Pronautic remote display. I installed it in my boat and am glad I did. It allows you to check the current charge cycle status, output voltage, current, etc. without opening up the engine hatch. It's not a battery monitor so it won't work without AC power but you already have that anyway. I know you like monitoring stuff

[tomschauer]

I bought a 1250p about a year and a half ago. I have a simple factory three battery stock bank and would have just bought the 1230 to replace my failed Charles 30a, but west marine had the 1250 on sale for the same price as the 1230, and my wiring was able to support it, so that is what I have. It works well, no issues so far, but again, I don't have a major battery bank.

[Midnightsun]

Seems like I may go for the 1250p (50a). Same physical size as the 60a and will only give me 10a more. Main reason is I can pick up a 1250p for $350 as opposed to close to double that for only 10a more compared to the 1260p, this is my cheap side talking. The way I see it is I get 30 more amps than what I have available now with 60a Charles plus the darn thing does not time out after 4 hrs of bulk charge which is a huge factor. Bottom line is I will increase my charging capacity by 150% ++. Heck the time out on the Charles can only provide 80a total before it times out and goes to the absorption stage. (What were they thinking?)

Another factor is I have about a 10-max 15' run from the charger to the batteries, according to the manual I would need 4ga for the 60 and 6ga for the 50. I am hoping there is 6ga already there if not it is a moot point as the wires will need to be changed.

I assume it comes with 1 temp probe connection possibility? That being the case I guess it will connect to the house bank which is really the one that needs charging all the time.

[Viper]

If your battery switch/switches are closer, hook up to the source/battery side of the switch. This may provide a shorter run and will minimize the number of connection at the battery terminals which is a good thing.

The kit will come with a temp probe that should be hooked up to a negative post of one of the house bank batteries so consider that before mounting the charger. I don't recall the length of the cable included. Roughly lay out the cable from one of the batteries to the charger location to ensure the cable length will suffice. Same applies to the remote display option if you go that route.

[Midnightsun]

Source of the post If your battery switch/switches are closer, hook up to the source/battery side of the switch. This may provide a shorter run and will minimize the number of connection at the battery terminals which is a good thing.

The kit will come with a temp probe that should be hooked up to a negative post of one of the house bank batteries so consider that before mounting the charger. I don't recall the length of the cable included. Roughly lay out the cable from one of the batteries to the charger location to ensure the cable length will suffice. Same applies to the remote display option if you go that route.

I need to check all of this out when I get to the boat. I do believe the cables from the charger are connected to the battery switches. Just need to check the gauge. Would be very convenient if I could simply unbolt the old and replace with the new, wires and all. Can be an easy swap or more complicated depending on the wire size they used.

[bud37]

The wiring on our boat was more than adequate to re and re a 50amp.......both the 110 and 12 volt...I found no terminals on the factory instal, had to get the right ones #8 for the 12volt and even the 110 wires were large, maybe #10 or #12. Minimal wire out thru the bulkhead though.

[Viper]

When I replaced my charger I replaced a 60A with a 60A and found the existing DC wiring to be of insufficient size even though I was sticking with the same output, so I rewired everything which I was already prepared to do ahead of time anyway. Having said that, I never checked the old charger's output. It's possible that the particular model split the output evenly between the three banks (20A-20A-20A) and so could get away with smaller wire. This is still done today in less expensive units.

[Hugo]

I started thinking about my charger, nothing wrong with it however I am a little concerned about its rated output and not being as smart as I would like. The unit is a Charles 5000 series 60a which is connected to 3 banks.

My issue is although it is rated at 60a, most of this is sitting idle as it really is the house bank that needs all the juice quickly and if I understand this correctly that give me only 20a on the house. On top of this if I read the specs on the link below it only bulk charges for 4 hours as this stage is on a timer which is a rather poor design IMHO but at the time was probably the way it was done. Charles got out of chargers several years back by the way. http://www.charlesindustries.com/marine ... 5B1%5D.pdf

I have been looking at a Pronautic 50a. Seems like they are well liked. The biggest plus is they will transfer up to 100% of their output to a single bank if required which means that very low house bank will get 50a bulk charge as opposed to 20a with the old Charles unit even though it had a higher overall rating. I am quite sure a decade plus of newer tech will make a difference in many aspects of the newer chargers and promote longer battery life with proper charging curves and automatic equalization. http://www.promariner.com/en/news/pronauticp

Here is a link to the model I am considering. http://www.promariner.com/en/63150

Looking for input of others regarding old tech vs new tech chargers, chargers types and is it worth the upgrade. Will set me back around $350 US if I go through with this.

Hello,

I have the same Charles 5000 charger as you and have to problem charging a 420AH bank of batteries.

You just wire all three banks of the charger as one into the house battery bank and you will get your 60 amps.

My setup if I recall has all three banks on that charger feeding 4 group 31 lead acid batteries that are in parallel for the house. If it's wired that way you will get 60 amps out of the charger into the house bank.

Then I have a 10 AMP charles charger that feeds two isolated engine batteries and a generator battery.

I never discharge my batteries below 50% (210AH) and that charger will have no problem topping off your batteries in 4 hours. Now, when I'm at anchor for a few days I never bother to fully top them off. Run the charger in morning and night for an hour or so and I'm easily putting back in 120AH used for the day. When I go back to the marina I let the charger do it's thing and top of my batteries.

My last set of batteries lasted 6 years with constant 50% draw just about every weekend for 6 months of the year. We anchor out pretty much every weekend. A cell went bad on one of the batteries and so I replaced the house bank.

So you can just wire your 60's three banks to feed the house and buy a small charger for engines and generator, will save you money instead of buying another 60 amp charger.

Eventually the capacitors in that charger get weak and float/bulk voltage drops witch leads to sulfation of the batteries. You can either replace those big caps yourself or send it in to charles for a couple of hundred bucks and they will do it along with tuning the resistor pods to make sure voltages are correct. My charger is going on 15 years and runs solid, it's a really good piece of equipment.

Good luck!

[Midnightsun]

I have the same Charles 5000 charger as you and have to problem charging a 420AH bank of batteries.

You just wire all three banks of the charger as one into the house battery bank and you will get your 60 amps.

Never really had a problem but I have noticed when at anchor the house bank nevr really recovers that well and now I know why. Plugged into shore power there is definitely no problem however it will take quite some time if the bank is large as in 48hrs + to completely top off. Remember, you are only getting 80a after the 4 hr switch to absorption rate.

Problem is I have 4 banks. 3 on the 60a Charles and the Generator on an independent 10a Charles single bank. I would be short 2 banks if I wired the 60A to the house bank and again I will mention the Charles times out after 4 hours on bulk charge so bottom line is you can only get 240amp out of it total before it swings to absorption rate. The other 2 banks are rather important as not only do they do engines although those normally remain rather full are interconnected with another 31 group battery 2 form 2 banks that also operate the windlass, bow and stern thrusters so yes those banks could need a good charge at times.