1990 3467 Santego battery arrangement, weak port starter

[BarryK]

Hi all,

I am a new owner of a 1990 3467. I am having trouble figuring out how the batteries are wired.

I have a single Perko switch in a compartment on the port side of the cockpit. There is a single standard-sized battery for the generator that is not connected to anything else; it is to port of the port engine. There are 2 standard sized batteries in the center of the engine compartment. There is also a large 8D battery aft of the starboard engine.

I am not sure how the 8D battery and the other 2 batteries are wired to the Perko. Was the 8D an option for the 3467 or was this a custom installation? The electrical panel only shows battery 1 and 2. There are also 2 volt meters at the helm labelled battery 1 and 2.

My problem is that the starter for the port engine labors to spin the engine like the battery is almost dead but voltages seem fine. The starter for the starboard engine spins the motor just fine. The port starter labors with Perko set to 1, 2, or all. Once the port engine starts, it runs just fine.

Thanks for the help!

Barry

[Midnightsun]

Check all positive and negative connections to the starter. Do not just pull on them and call it a day if they do not wiggle. You will need to remove, clean and retighten. This should solve the issue. If not, the starter may just be on its way out. Welcome to CYO.

[km1125]

With no available documentation, you will have to do some investigation. Even if you got the original docs from Carver, who knows what might have been changed since it left the factory!!

You should disconnect each battery one at a time, then do tests to see what still has power with the switch in various positions. Those three batteries should power each engine and the house. The generator battery is usually isolated (but really should have its own "off-on" switch).

You'll also want to investigate exactly how the batteries are all charged, both from shore power and from the engines. Lots of variations can exists with this too.

[BarryK]

Thanks for the replies!

I went through all of the batteries, cleaned all of the cable connections, and tested.

The 2 Group 31 batteries are wired in parallel and are "Battery 1" on the Perko and panel.
The 8D is "Battery 2" on the Perko and Panel.
The battery for the generator is isolated.
All batteries are dated Oct. or Nov. 2018 and all tested good with a load tester. All are West Marine AGM.
So, the battery mystery is solved.

I opened the Perko. The connections are a bit rusty. They were hard to get to so I did not take them apart. Since the starboard starter is OK I thought the Perko is probably OK.

I found the starter on the port engine. It is on the upper port side. The cable connections and face plate of the solenoid are completely rusted. I could not loosen the nut for the battery Red wire. I put some Kroil penetrating oil on the nuts. I then tested the starters. The starboard engine fired right up. The port starter labored worse than ever and finally only clicked with no rotation. Maybe the Kroil made the electrical connection even worse? Maybe the started has died all together?

It was getting late so I called it a day. I will try again tomorrow. Would it be safe to run a jumper cable directly from the battery positive to the starter positive to see if the starter works? Alternatively I could measure the resistance, battery to starter or measure voltage drops.

The engine ground connection is hard to get to but I could also try running a jumper cable from battery neg. to engine block to see what happens. Also I can measure resistance from battery neg to the starter case.

If I need a new starter I believe they are specific to mounting location and engine rotation. This starter is near the top. I'm not sure of the engine rotation. My setup is Crusader 454s, velvet drive transmissions and V-drives. Were engines counter rotating in 1990 or did the transmissions handle the opposite propshaft rotation? I should have looked before the port engine died.

Access on the Santego 3467 to the back of the engine and transmission is through small hatches in the cabin, very tight to work in there. I did not check the starter mounting bolts to see if I can get a wrench on them.

Thanks again,
Barry

[mjk1040]

So the 2 group 31's batteries are your starting batteries, the 8D is your house battery. So when starting your engines you need to be on Battery#1 at least or on all position. When on the hook, you want to turn to Battery#2 your house battery.
Now mind you may not be charging Battery #1 & #2 while under way unless the perko switch is on all. Your on the right track with the port starter. It appears corrosion is your issue. If after cleaning all contacts and the issue remains, the low supply amps to the starter may have ruined the solenoid and or the starter, so you may still have to replace the starter and solenoid. Now in the auto business I never had any luck with rebuilt GM starters and would suggest getting a brand new GM starter, they tend to get a bad spot in them. Keep the faith and you'll over come the problem.

[bud37]

Possible causes lots of times, as has been mentioned, is just corrosion, bad positive contact or bad ground contact....could be a bad cable as well. You are going in the right direction, but cleaning all the contact points is imperative.......good luck with it and keep the guys informed if you find the issue.

[BarryK]

Thanks guys!

Do I need to get a marine starter or a standard automotive starter? Is there a difference?

[Midnightsun]

Definitely marine. Automotive starters do not have a spark arrest built into them. A bad mix of fumes and an automotive starter could mean KABOOM!

[Cooler]

Your engines have a spec plate on them. The model number should have an R, or an L, incorporated in the info. That indicates the direction of engine turn. Otherwise, contact a Crusader dealer, give them the engine serial numbers, and ask them to inquire to Crusader for the spec info for engines. Here is an example of what Crusader provided to me:
96252 – Crusader model: CM350L – 350 CID LH rotation – XL series

96253 – Crusader model: CM350R – 350 CID RH rotation – XL series

Engines were sold to Carver Boat Corporation 02/13/1995, sold to first owner 04/17-1995 by Lakeside Marina, Oshkosh, WI

No additional information available.



​Horse power 250 hp @ 4400 rpm

Good luck! er

[km1125]

I would not use jumper cables on the (+) connection from battery to starter, as you get an arc when they make contact. Using some on the negative though should not present a problem, as you can connect them and make sure they have a good contact before you hit the start switch. You should also have a (rather large) ground cable that goes from one engine to the other, but it may be connected to the same spot where the negative cable comes from the battery and that connection might be corroded too. A couple of voltage measurements while you're trying to crank should isolate if your issue is on the positive or negative side. Just put the voltmeter on there and crank for a second or two and see what the voltage drop is. Anything over a volt on either side would be too much.

You can also look at the timing marks to determine which way the engine rotates. However, the "port" and "starboard" are labelled for my engines which are straight shaft and not v-drives. I think the engine rotation is also on the plate right behind the flywheel, as you can check timing there too. I believe there's an arrow which shows the crank rotation.

crusader_timing_marks.jpg