1980 Carver 28 Voyager - Buyers advice

[Firstclass]

Hey all together,

I am new here and maybe becoming part of the Carver Yachts community.
I am 33 yo from Germany and currently very interested in buying a 1980 Carver 28 Voyager.
The boat looks a bit bulky but brings a lot of storage room for 28ft lenght, as I am planning to move partly on the water (as a 2nd home).

I am looking for some advice regarding the model and the 2 crusader 5.7 L V8 engines.
The offer I am currently interested in is this one:

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anz ... 1-211-5126

I've checked out the boat and took some pictures with which I hope to get some opinions and hints from the community. I've numbered the pics so that you could easily refere to them.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1dow7d54uzfk ... E3G-a?dl=0

My questions would be:
- What do you generally say about the crusaders in terms of maintenance/parts availability & costs?
- What do you think about the V transmissions?
- Should I take a look on other specific things of the Carver 28 Voyager?

It would be great to get some answers? It will be my first own boat though I have a licence for already 17 years.
Thanks a lot for your statements!

See you,

Simon

[Cooler]

Simon - welcome to the group. With that age of a boat, the story is all about how good the previous owners took care of her. In general terms, Crusader engines are very good. I noticed the hour meters have 1300 hrs, so you really need to get a good understanding of past maintenance. Crusader engines will run 2500 hrs before you need to think about major rebuild, depending on how they were run and maintained. Parts are not an issue, as they can be matched up with aftermarket availability. The V drives are Borg Warner Velvet drives, again very good depending on care. The hull is solid fiberglass below the water line, but it looks like there are some small blisters. Not a deal breaker, but you should get those repaired. Looks like the bottom paint was applied only as needed or touch up. If it were me, I would require the seller to have a boat yard fix the blisters and then replace the bottom paint, including Interprotect initial layer. Any boatyard will know what that means. Another thing is to check the integrity of the hull above waterline. There could be soft spots anywhere. That would be potentially rotted core inside the fiberglass. If you get serious about the boat, get a marine surveyor to inspect the vessel. Good luck! er

[Firstclass]

Thanks for your answer. The owner bought it 40 years ago, so a trackable history which is good.
The bottom paint is 2-3 years old (2017 fully renewed) and in 2019 the boat wasn't in the water.

Good to hear that you do not have a lot of doubts about the V drive. It brings a lot of room that the engines are in the aft and not in the midship ... and maybe its easier and cleaner to work on them as in a boat where engines are in the mid ship.
My alternative - a Trojan F32 looks more nice ... but it's history is not that transparent ...

[bud37]

Welcome to the forum......what would be the asking price for each of these boats in USD ? There really is a big difference between an F32 and the 28 Voyager.

[tomschauer]

For a 1980 boat, I would verify that the hull for either boat is not cored with wood and verify the hull is in good shape. Both boats will have wood cored stringers and probably transoms for that year. Make sure you check or have them checked for rot and moisture, as a repair could easily cost more than the value of the boat.
Crusader or any other engine marinizer ( the actual engines are made by either gm, ford or mopar) for 1980, it could by any of these three. The Carver is most likely ford and the trojan most likely dodge. But who knows what engine they where ordered with. If you can get the serial numbers you can find out who made the engine. The ford or dodge parts are most likely a bit harder to come by and therefore a bit more expensive, but all should be available.

Best wishes on your endeavor!

[Firstclass]

Carver 28 Voyaer = 13.000 USD with 1300 hrs engine said to be crusader 5,7L but the sign on the engine shows goodwrench 350.

Trojan F32 = 18.000 USD with 2100 hrs on two Chrysler 360s (which show leakages)

[Austinorson]

Hi,
I bought a 1980 3326 voyager last year. It has 270 Crusaders velvet transmissions and Walter v drives.
We like the boat, it was redone 15 + yrs ago and ni problems with the Crusaders.

[Cooler]

The Crusader engine are definitely GM blocks. 350 Cubic Inch translates to 5.7L. Those blocks are commercial grade, and Crusader marinized. The person who started Crusader was actually an engineer with an aviation background. If the choice between boats is a good Crusader or leaking Chrysler, that is a no brainer. The Trojan is a well built boat, as a matter of fact, Carver bought Trojan in 1998. Hull for hull, the Trojan is probably little better, but the power package is inferior to the Crusader set up. A one owner boat - nice! There has obviously been some repairs on the engines, but at least you can figure out if that was done correctly. Get to know the owner a little if you can. Then you will know how he used and ran the vessel. Did he cruise at 3000 to 3400 RPM, or was he a full throttle kind of guy? That engine new would top out at 4400 RPM. The other added value to getting to know the owner is he will probably be flexible with price, or provided repairs. Pic # 35 shows some degradation under the rub rail. Check the strength all around the boat. The structural technique used by Carver is very strong in the way they attached the top side to the hull, so if there are any soft or flexible spots there, that would be a cause for concern. Also, I can't tell what is in pic #8. Is that insulation somewhere, or fiberglass rove? Finally, the bottom paint looks more than 2 seasons old. Lots of bare spots. If those bare spots are grey in color, then the Interprotect was applied previously. Hard to tell if those "blisters" are hull blisters or maybe just old barnacles. Do not buy a boat without a sea trial and survey. Hope it all works out! er

[g36]

I had a 1978 f32 trojan for 8 yrs before my carver 405. I do love the trojan and teak trim. My carver has none. The hours are high on the trojan maintenance info and salt or fresh water boat? There is a great trojan forum with the moderator being an employee of the original trojan company so any questions about the trojan can be easily answered. That being said this carver forum has lots to give too. I had the chryslers on mine also and they were good for me I presently have crusaders so far so good. Get a good survey and gather as much info you can about the boats and Good luck .

[Viper]

The F32 and F36 were probably Trojan's most popular models. Well built boats, and if you like the sporty look, their lines can't be beat IMO. For the age, you'll want to check the stringers in the F32, and look for soft spots in the deck, cockpit, and flybridge but that goes for ALL brands unless they utilize a hollow stringer system as Carver did with some of theirs, then you don't have to worry so much about the stringers.

Crusaders are great engines for sure. Don't knock the Chryslers though, they were work horses in their marine days and are still rebuilt and put into service in both marine and vintage hi performance automotive applications. The Mopar (Chrysler) 318, 360, 440 were all good engines, I've worked on a lot of them and still do. You probably won't find many parts at your typical local marina that is most likely Mercruiser driven but in most areas you can say the same for Crusader, Volvo, etc. The internet makes local access a non issue and I'd say just about every part is still available for Chryslers. On both makes for that vintage, one engine will be a counter rotator. The only thing you'd likely have a hard time finding would be a counter rotating cam if it ever had to be replaced. Having said that, a good cam shop would be able to fabricate one to original specs.

In the Carver pics, I see a few things that would raise a red flag for me and warrant inspection. There are a few but the most worrisome is whether automotive hardware was used on the engines rather than marine, or whether they are marine engines at all. The rocker covers are definitely automotive and that's what precipitated a closer look besides no paint on the intake man and what looks to be a block that is not blue. If that's the case, these engines may not be original Crusaders. While the covers aren't a concern, some other items are but I can't quite tell from the angles of the photos. Looks like the carbs are Quadrajet as I see a vacuum break, hopefully it's a marine set up with the tell tale overflow from the fuel pump, usually a small clear hose, this is critical. I don't see a tell tale line coming out of the fuel pump to the carb, again this is a must if the original mechanical pump is being used to deliver fuel. And I see what looks to be a vacuum advance on the distributor(?) If these aren't marine rated, then you have to wonder about the other items that can be potentially hazardous such as the starters and alternators or anything else in the engine bay for that matter. You don't want automotive ones in a marine gasoline engine compartment as they won't be ignition proof and can cause an explosion. Also check to see if the frost plugs on the blocks are brass. If they aren't, then they were originally automotive engines used to replace the original Crusaders.

The Walter V-Drives are pretty robust units but they fail like anything else. The good news is that parts are available for them.

Good luck with your search and keep us posted.