Carver 404 / 396 ease of maintenance

[MSC]

Hi,
I've started shopping around for a Carver 396 or 404 about 20 years old with diesel power. I really like the 404 because of the rear cabin door onto the cockpit. Good for rear cabin ventilation while not using AC. I will mainly be cruising in Florida and the Bahamas.

However, I would like to do routine engine maintenance myself and an wondering if the engine room of the 404 is really too right, especially with diesels. How difficult is it to get at both raw water pumps, for example, or both heat exchangers?

Does the 396 have a much better engine room? Should I rule out the 404 because of difficulty of maintenance which is an important factor in a boat of that age?

I like the 444 for the same reasons as the 404, but it is getting longer, and heavier, and more risk of being underpowered and, of course, more expensive by the foor for everything.

My needs are comfortable cruising during the winter for two people with occasional visits from another couple for a week to 10 days.

Looking forward to hearing about your expériences,
Mark C

[buster53]

Ok, the 404 is basically a 356 with an added cockpit. I have a 356 with Crusader 8.1's which is about the biggest gas engine you can get. Engine room Is TIGHT. I'm guessing diesels will be roughly the same, but I could be wrong. Not saying you can't get to routine maintenance items, but it is tight and you have to move the sectional sofa to fully access the port engine, meaning the long section has to be placed on top of the dinette and the short section moved as far starboard as possible.

Never been in the engine room of a 396 but it has to have more engine room than a 356. I used to have a 3807 and engine access was much better than my 356.

[bud37]

Welcome to the forum.....my advice, get the longest boat you can.....the longer hull will have a faster hull speed using the same horsepower , the engine room will be far more acceptable.....imo you will not regret the bigger boat if it is possible.....good luck with your boat search.

[Viper]

Bigger doesn't always give you more access to everything IMO. They just shove more and bigger things into them. I've been servicing a 60 footer for two years now where you could dine between the two D13 engines but it's still next to impossible to get between the engines and the fuel tanks. Barely any room to service the IPS-3 pod uppers, add bigger generator, remote AC compressor units, water makers, etc. etc, well you get the picture. You can't even get two hands on the AC strainer and seacock it's in such a hidden tight spot. Lots of room for the dinghy in its own compartment under the cockpit though. Would hate to work on a triple engine application of some of these bigger boats which is starting to get more popular.

The best thing to do is assess the access to all the areas in each model that you'll need to get to for servicing maintenance items, winterizing if applicable, etc. While you're at it, look for items that are difficult to get to and would require major dismantling to get to them. When you're ready to make a decision, compare your notes for each model. If you tackle this type of work yourself, it's your time, if you hire someone to do it, access will be a huge determining factor in the cost of the job.

Good luck in your search and keep us posted.

[MSC]

Thank you buster53 for the description of the 404/356 engine room. It is the sort of thing I wanted to hear from people who have hands on experience. I always wondered what to do about the sofas to get to the engines. Thanks for the details.

I have been starting to realize, as bud37 says, that I would probably have to buy more boat than I need to keep the maintenance doable. I would like to do as much as possible myself without becoming a contorsionist.

Viper's advice about taking notes on the systems of each model is good too. I will check out a 404/356 and a 396/444 and see which engine room I think I will be better able to slither around.

Thank you all for your comments. If anyone has anything to add, feel free.
Thanks a lot.

[Tireless]

I owned a 356 and now I own a 44/444 with diesels. I do all my maintenance myself and have for years. I find that the access is a lot better with the 44, however, maintenance on the diesels is more expensive than the gas. More oil, more filters and they are a lot pricier than the gas engine filters. Simply put, the 44 is much easier to work on and there is also room for storage of tools and parts in the bilge in from of the starboard engine.

I like the 44 and the 404, however, I like the size of the 44 and the fact that it has diesels. It moves along pretty good for a big heavy boat, but the room you have makes it well worth it.

The diesels are much more efficient than the gas, from my experience.

Good luck.

Greg

[MSC]

Thanks Tireless for the reply.

I am definitely going with diesels. I currently have a 6000 lb boat with a 7.5L Mercruiser and I cannot imagine powering a 30 000 lb boat with two of those.

Does your 44 have 2 x 370 diesels? Are they Cummins or Volvo? I have seen some 396 and 444 with 330 hp diesels. Do you think they are underpowered? Will the diesel have to be flat out to get it up on a plane?

Thanking you in advance,
Mark

[Tireless]

Source of the post Does your 44 have 2 x 370 diesels? Are they Cummins or Volvo? I have seen some 396 and 444 with 330 hp diesels. Do you think they are underpowered? Will the diesel have to be flat out to get it up on a plane?

I have twin Volvo Penta D6 370 Hp. diesels. At 90%, 3240 rpm's it planes out at 20-21 mph. WOT for the D6 is 3600 rpm. If you load her up with fuel and a dinghy on the back, I may loose .5 - 1 mph. I suspect the 330 hp. would be under powered in a 44 CMY. I wish mine were a bit bigger in my boat as well, however, 20-21 mph is pretty respectable for a 36,000 lb. boat.

Greg

[tomschauer]

Most every aft cabin boat i have been on utilizes as much space as possible for creature comfort and has very little design forethought regarding repairs and maintenance. This seems to hold true up into the 60' range.
I guess you need to look at what is regular maintenance and can it be done without to much trouble.

For my 355 (same access as 356), oil and fuel filter changes are not bad at all. plugs on the out board sides of both engines are not ideal, but not bad, but with the newer plugs, that's once every several years at most. My port raw water pump is no problem but the starboard requires me to remove the heat exchanger so I can get into the "hole" to replace the pump or impeller. This adds 2 hours to a 2 hour job.

To replace the outboard manifolds on either engine would be good days work for one person.

Yanking either engine is something i hope to never do. If I ever have to yank a trans, I would hope its the starboard.

[Viper]

Tom, do your stairs going into the aft cabin come out? Some do which makes access there way easier than the port side for sure.

If you're in a winterizing area of Canada, check how easy it is to get to the mufflers for draining them. Some are impossible to access without a major dismantle, so it results in needing more antifreeze to displace all the water in them. I've had to re & re a few mufflers for people that couldn't drain and didn't run enough antifreeze through them. No access is also a marina's way out of taking responsibility for frost damage to something you hired them to winterize.