Forward bilge swamp Carver 430

[pondiscio@gmail.com]

I imagine I'm not the first owner to be infinitely annoyed by the water that accumulates in the forward bilge. I imagine a lot of owners have figured this out, and I've seen posts that touch on this but they never seem to come to what I would call a satisfactory resolution. I thought I share a post of mine from another forum that sheds some light on this annoyance. I'll paste it below, but as it was told to me, water can bypass the aft and mid bilge and pool in the forward bilge. I wanted to confirm this myself, so I did a LOT of crawling around and pulling things apart on my boat until I had a definitive answer. In short, water runs inside the two main stringers of the hull grid. You would never know unless you open the inspection hatches and stick a camera inside to get a look at the stream running in there. (PIC attached) The water can come from anywhere. Leaky windows, sumps, through hulls, condensation, fresh water system leaks, etc. It usually finds its way into a limber hole and runs forward.

Going through this exercise exposed a number of leaks and issues that I would have never found until more serious damage was done. Things like; leaks in the fresh water plumbing at some joints, Leaks around rear sliding windows and door, leaks behind cabinetry in aft head through hull, Front portholes, diesel fill holes, etc. Ive remediated these and feel much better about the watertight integrity of my 430 now.

In short, if you have water in your forward bilge, you have leaks somewhere in your boat and there are about a hundred different places it can come from. Finding them is certainly a challenge and a process. Im sure not everyone wants such an intimate knowledge of the bowels of their carver, but drying her in will keep her in much better shape.... And the captain (wife) says the boat smells a LOT better now....

Original Post;
Before I crawl all over my boat to figure this out, I thought I'd ask the community.....
My forward bilge seems to always have water in it. Im trying to find the source. Im sure it comes from multiple places. Ive removed the fresh water tanks to service them and to gain access to the bilge. The tanks are not perforated or leaking. I capped all the drains going to the forward sump. Still I'm finding water is making it into the bilge. I have no holes in the hull. Just had it hauled out and a bottom job done.
Likely suspects are the forward port lights, fresh water fill port gasket, chain locker. I cant say if its salt water or not as I'm not on the boat right now. I have a camera set up in the boat to watch the bilge level on my phone while I figure this out. Has anybody else run into this annoyance and if so what did you find?

Reply 1;
The way the limber holes are set up on these boats the water can be coming from anywhere. Even the stern bilge area. Everything drains to the front. I’d check 2 things. First cockpit drains in the stern. Next if you are only getting water while making way it’s likely the front hvac water outlet on the starboard bow … it may need sealing, it almost submerges while running and water can push in around it.

Reply 2;
Check the anchor locker. More than likely at least some of it is coming from there. Unfortunately our boats collect the water in the forward bilge where there is no pump to get rid of it. A previous owner had cut a hole in the forward cabin in the compartment under the the berth to gain access. I pump it out through that access using a shop vac. In addition when running, I put the bow up and turn on all three bilge pumps which may or may not get rid of some of it. It's one of those things that makes you scratch your head and say "what were they thinking"?

Reply3;
I have had the same issue since I bought the vessel. 4 years. Center and rear bilge is dry. Front bilge which is under the stairs to the galley always has water in it. Tried to find the source but no luck. Following to see if your issue can lead me to resolution.

My Response;
I have a definitive answer as to where the water in the forward bilge is coming from in my 430. First, thank you for your suggestions. I looked at all of them carefully and found none of them, not even cumulatively, could account for the volume and type water in the bilge.... Its salt water. I checked the air condition cooling through hull in the bow, condensation on the inside of the hull, chain locker drain, fresh water systems, raw water pumps, through hulls, and leaks around the sliding doors and windows. None of them were leaking at all, or enough, to create the constant pooling of water in the forward bilge. So what is it? It is the rudder packing glands. They both leak. I was aware they leak, but because of how the water pooled and drained, it was concealing the amount of water coming in. I assumed the water coming in was just pooling around the rudder base. That is not the case. The water pools a tiny bit around the rudder base but the bulk of it leaks into a limber hole in the main stringer of the hull grid. This conceals the water as it runs down the inside of the stringers bypassing the aft and mid bilge until it reaches the bow where it leaks out of the stringer through limber holes into the front bilge under the water tanks. That's why it was so hard to find. I removed the water tanks dried the bilge and confirmed this as well as opening the inspection ports in the stringers to observe the water flow. SO... Mystery solved. I have the boat scheduled to be pulled out on the Jan 23 2023 to get the glands replaced or repacked and have one of the props straightened. On to the next mystery.....

This photo rotated 90 degrees clockwise when attached, but it is an image of the inside of the main starboard stringer via the hatch just forward of the hot water heater.

[pondiscio@gmail.com]

PIC of the forward bulge looking forward with the fresh water tanks removed. There is a LOT of water hiding under the tanks. The forward bilge pump is at the highest point in the forward bilge under the stairs. The only way to get this water out is to run the bilge pump while plowing water at about 13knots.....or get a low profile bilge pump and remove the forward tank to install at the lowest point in the bilge. Notice to high water rings around the bilge.....

[km1125]

Wow. Good finds.

Before you put the freshwater tanks back in, you might want to identify the absolute lowest spot in that fwd bilge and mount a pickup, with a hose running forward or aft that you could hook to a bilge pump. Maybe even more of a "dry bilge" system (even DIY) as has been discussed in other projects here. The main bilge pump for the fwd bilge would still be responsible for getting the bulk of the water out of there is something happened, but then you'd have something to drain the remaining water and get it back 'dry' again!

[RobGunn]

I find water accumulation in 3 of the 5 low points in my 3607 carver. I have auto bilge pumps in the 3 normal locations but as we know, a bilge pump will never get "All the water out". I found that using a shopvac every 2-3 weeks helps the issue but that is a pain in the back side to crawl around and get it done. My simplest solution was to finally mount/install plastic hoses in each of the 5 locations that are positioned so the hose is in the lowest point on the floor. I then mount the other end of the hose to a easier accessible location that I can easily access with my shop vac. No more crawling around up side down in the bottom of the boat. All I do now is open the access cover, attach my shopvac, suck it out, close access cover, the end. On rare occasions, if I do find a lot of stagnant blackish stink water I suck it out, pore some soap and water down the hose, let it set for a beer or two, then go back and suck out the soap and water. This makes a much happier boat with no boat stink.

[km1125]

Source of the post I find water accumulation in 3 of the 5 low points in my 3607 carver. I have auto bilge pumps in the 3 normal locations but as we know, a bilge pump will never get "All the water out". I found that using a shopvac every 2-3 weeks helps the issue but that is a pain in the back side to crawl around and get it done. My simplest solution was to finally mount/install plastic hoses in each of the 5 locations that are positioned so the hose is in the lowest point on the floor. I then mount the other end of the hose to a easier accessible location that I can easily access with my shop vac. No more crawling around up side down in the bottom of the boat. All I do now is open the access cover, attach my shopvac, suck it out, close access cover, the end. On rare occasions, if I do find a lot of stagnant blackish stink water I suck it out, pore some soap and water down the hose, let it set for a beer or two, then go back and suck out the soap and water. This makes a much happier boat with no boat stink.

I'm curious where those three sections break down to. I had an earlier 3607, and in it there were only two real sections. The bulkhead in front of the engines isolated the bilge into two sections -fwd and aft. There was a second bulkhead at the rear of the engines, but there was a large semi-circle opening under the steps to the aft cabin that would allow any water that accumulated in the aft cabin section to "leak" into the engine room bilge, so it would be mostly eliminated by that bilge pump. There was still some standing water though, as the bilge pump would only get down to 1/2" or so. There was a separate bilge pump for the fwd bilge, but it was located back at the bulkhead which was not the lowest part so water could sit up by the shower sump.

[RobGunn]

I am out off town for the holidays but I will create a sketch of the locations when I get time.