Tis A Battery Year

[Viper]

There are only so many battery manufacturers, and that's my point, many are coming from the same factory. They all manufacture lines for different brands. What we have to keep in mind is that while they may make a quality product, they make a variety models to meet certain brand requirements and price points. They'll make a few premium lines of 24 group starting models for example that may be in the range of $200 or more suggested list, and a variety of lower priced models for some brands. Given the same spec, we can't expect their $100 model to be the same construction and use the same parts as their more expensive builds. For a good 24 group starter battery, a dealer can't even get one at his cost for less than $100.

In the end, performance and longevity will dictate whether a given price point was worth it. Having said that, the outcome is totally dependent on quite a few variables. While a particular brand and model might work well for one owner for five years, it may only last for two years under someone else's ownership. How they are used and maintained makes all the difference, even with a premium build.

[Midnightsun]

Agreed however these are starting/thruster/anchor batteries and therefor rarely, if ever see a deep discharge which we all know is the main #1 battery killer cause. They start the engine which is alway instantaneous, I mean not even 1 turn over and she is running so not much drained at all and then it gets an immediate alternator charge on top of that.

Not so sure I would cheap out on the house bank though as those get a lot of abuse and need to be a quality build. Using dual Trojan L16's there. https://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/datas ... Sheets.pdf

I did mention I paid around $1700 total. $1000 for the house bank and $700 for the 5 Cummins.

[bud37]

I have two east penn batteries for the engine/generator starts and two for the thruster...they have been fine. Rolls Surrette for the house bank though....considerable difference in the price though...

[Tireless]

Hans, so the L16's that you refer to are in fact a 6 volt. The house pack in all of my previous boats were 6 Volt. I will check them out if/when my 8A4D packs it in, as it doesn't give me a lot of amp hrs at 198 A.H. @ 20 Hrs.. The L16's look very tall, did you instal them between the centre stringers and if so, did you have to modify the height of the plank thats covers the batteries. I would be very interested on soon feedback once you have had a chance to put them to the challenge.

Tom, the lithiums are very pricey. The 3 kw. is $2,000 and the 6 kw. is $4,000. As time goes by, as with all tech, the prices should drop.

Nice purchase Hans, you should get a charge out of your investment, sort of speak.

Greg

[Midnightsun]

Yep, the L16's are 6volt. Wire them in series to form a 12v bank. This gives you a 435ah @ 20hrs 12v house bank which works very well for me. May even go 4x L16 for a total of 870AH.

There is no room in my engine bay where Carver had 1 lonely group 31 battery as a house bank with no other available space at all. I removed this and placed the dual L16 bank under the kitchen floor up against the wall that separates it from the engine room as there is lots of room in there at least on the 41CMY. Yes they are tall but the footprint is rather small. Heavy buggers at 125lbs each but quite manageable. Going to the boat tomorrow and will snap a pic for you.

[km1125]

Qr Bbpost The newer lithium batteries seem to be very good. However, a good one with the built in protection and roughly equivalent power to a good group 31 is about $900.00 US. so they would need to last at least 20 years for payback.
There may be other advantages for those who use a lot of house battery power when on the hook, but that's still a lot of $.

When doing the cost comparisons you also have to factor in that the lithiums can be discharged to a much higher degree without significant damage relative to a lead-acid battery. A normal lead-acid bank shouldn't be discharged below 50% but the lithiums can go down by at least 80%.

You also have a higher voltage on the lithiums so for many services (especially inverters) the current draw will be less for the same given load, resulting in a more usable overall capacity.

[Midnightsun]

Lithium is great HOWEVER overall cost is a big factor. Yes you get a lot more usable AH from the same rating when comparing Lithium to conventional and they keep their charge much much better. Biggest issue for boaters is charging. They really need specific charging parameters or you will ruin your $6000+++ investment in no time and no they will not be replaced under warranty. Alternator output needs to be controlled by add on controllers and your shore power charging system needs to be changed. Lots of money and expertise involved to make everything perfectly suited for lithium. Lithium cannot be float charged like all other batteries are when they are full, nada is to be sent to them or they will be toast. Almost forgot, you have a solar panel? Need to change the controller on that also. One day we will all have Lithium but this is at least a decade or so away before it becomes reasonably priced IMHO.

Informative link. https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/art ... _batteries

[Midnightsun]

Here is the picture of the dual 6v Trojans as promised. Located under the galley floor storage area up against the wall to the engine compartment. Added a watering system since access to fill water is impossible without moving tha batteries @ 125lbs each! They have been there for 4 years now. https://www.flow-rite.com/battery-care/ ... ro-fill-3/

[vtcats]

Qr Bbpost Lithium is great HOWEVER overall cost is a big factor. Yes you get a lot more usable AH from the same rating when comparing Lithium to conventional and they keep their charge much much better. Biggest issue for boaters is charging. They really need specific charging parameters or you will ruin your $6000+++ investment in no time and no they will not be replaced under warranty. Alternator output needs to be controlled by add on controllers and your shore power charging system needs to be changed. Lots of money and expertise involved to make everything perfectly suited for lithium. Lithium cannot be float charged like all other batteries are when they are full, nada is to be sent to them or they will be toast. Almost forgot, you have a solar panel? Need to change the controller on that also. One day we will all have Lithium but this is at least a decade or so away before it becomes reasonably priced IMHO.

Informative link. https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/art ... _batteries

I’m not an expert by any means but I’ve read quite a few articles indicating the differences between lithium ion and LiFePo batteries. Tech has changed quite a bit since this article was written.
Also, time will tell on most of your other comments because I think most of the issues are controlled by a BMS. I have nothing complicated (no add on controllers)in my setup, but have all you mentioned. Solar, large alternators, etc.
I’ve onLy had my set for 2 years, but have spoken to many who have had them many years with similar set up to me and no issues and full charge capacity has been maintained without issue.
My only change I made was getting a charger/inverter that I can control bulk charge, absorb time and float voltage and more (because I have some items that draw down the batteries on power).
But the bottom line the whole set up was fairly easy and the benefits are many, many, many. Not looking to argue like most other sites do for some reason, but the one thing I agree on is cost. The batteries are Very expensive (if you are not building your own, which I did not do). But I was tired of the prev set up using lead acid (or even AGM). Too much time on the genset to charge while at anchor, capacity loss or simply having to change them too often, etc.
If someone is really interested, I would suggest contacting the owner (Tom) of this company, https://www.custommarineproducts.com/
I purchased all my stuff here.

[Midnightsun]

UPDATE,

Not much to report except all the Cummins batteries performed flawlessly then again it has only been a season. Cannot get a better deal IMHO if you are in Canada that is. Will report back in spring to see if they survived the winter. I do have a nice battery tester that measures CCA capacity like this which I will plug in come spring. https://www.amazon.ca/FOXWELL-BT705-Analyzer-100-2000-Automotive/dp/B01ANF1D7U

Oddly enough, the battery only costs $119 CDN on the Cummins.ca site but in the US Cummins site it costs $169US? heck thats about double the price converted to CDN.