Buying a 4207 motor yacht 1986 I need advice

[km1125]

Yea, I think we got you figured out. Show her the old boat first, that's bigger than the current boat, and have her bail on that idea.

Well, I guess that's one way to get her onboard to buy into something that's newer, bigger, and more expensive!!!


J/K!!!

[Cooler]

Sounds like you're doing the right thing. Also, just for future reference in case you find a Carver your wife likes better, 90% of Carvers have solid hulls up to the rub rails. The technique used in attaching the decks to the hull was super reinforced. The few models that had any balsa in the side hulls were smaller vessels like the Monterey under 26 ft. The article you reference, David Pascoe author, ( RIP ) was from when he discovered a Carver that had gone through a hurricane at the dock. He wrote how the Carver was inferior due to coring, and compared it to a Bertram that had done all kinds of damage to the marina, and came through the hurricane with minor damage. The Carver was a 26 Monterey, the Bertram a much bigger boat. He experienced a lot of criticism on that article, and Carver actually took exception to the comparison. He did publish a partial retraction to the article as an unfair comparison, but that did not receive as much attention as the primary article. Pascoe was a controversial author who focused on very high end ocean vessels. He had a family history in marine industry, so lot's of experience. My advice, forget the article, and talk to Carver owners. Finally, take a look at how many 80's models are still in marinas, serving their owners. In non-salt water areas, that is the surprising statistic. You will not see anywhere near the same number of comparative brands. er

[Tireless]

Probably your best move for sure.

Greg

[Kenblacks]

I believe I’m making the right decision for my family thanks for you guys the advise

I read a review that was done and back in 1986 that was just grabbing the coring and Heather built for ladder wait maybe I didn’t understand fully what I was reading or the reviewer got it wrong but he made it sound like these things were balls record throughout the three page review that I printed out
It’s labeled dick Simon yachts 42 Carver motor yacht review dated December 28, 1985 you guys might wanna look at it sometime is when your bored it’s a pretty in depth review

Thanks again guys have a good day

[Kenblacks]

Please excuse me I don’t have wheels so I talk text and my corrections most of the time

He was describing had the balsa coring was throughout the boat if I understood correctly even the stringers were hollow

[km1125]

QR_BBPOST I believe I’m making the right decision for my family thanks for you guys the advise

I read a review that was done and back in 1986 that was just grabbing the coring and Heather built for ladder wait maybe I didn’t understand fully what I was reading or the reviewer got it wrong but he made it sound like these things were [edit: balsa coring was throughout] the three page review that I printed out
It’s labeled dick Simon yachts 42 Carver motor yacht review dated December 28, 1985 you guys might wanna look at it sometime is when your bored it’s a pretty in depth review

Thanks again guys have a good day

If this is the right review (https://dicksimonyachts.com/blog/boat-r ... otor-yacht), I think he did a nice job on it.

There a few things I noted. He starts out describing the 42, calling it "a true Motor Yacht, not a multilevel cruiser like Carver's 36 Aft Cabin". Then he goes on to describe the 42, using an identical description that could be used for the 36... "The saloon lies mid-level, between the afterdeck (three steps up) and the after stateroom (two steps down)."

He also uses the word "saloon" a lot, which gets annoying. I'll make exceptions for British folks, and a bit of an allowance for our Canadian friends, but a "saloon" is a British term. In the USA it refers to a western drinking establishment. "Salon" would be the more correct term. But that could be just a bit pedantic.

He noted that with the 350HP gas engines, they recorded a top speed of nearly 27 mph and at a cruise of 3000 rpm, better than 17 mph and almost a mile per gallon. I'm surprised at that, because those are numbers that my old 3607 had which is ~6,000 lbs lighter than the 4207.

Moving on to more of your concerns though, he did write "Carver uses an “egg crate” structure of lightweight, hollow hat-section stringers and floors that leave much less total hull area unsupported, compared to conventional fore-to-aft framing systems. In addition, fore-and-aft fiberglass liners are bonded to the hull, making them additional structural members. Together with hull sides laid up using balsa coring, a saloon sole built from welded aluminum, and cabin and saloon overheads of balsa composite"

I think he's wrong on the hull sides having the balsa coring, but the deck and overheads having balsa is pretty standard on recreational boats. I'd be very curious to hear Viper's comments as related to his descriptions of the framing, as it's been a long time since I've seen the inside of an engine room on a 4207. My 3607 did have stiffeners (that you could call "hollow hat-section stringers", I guess) in parts of the engine room hull, but there were several significant stringers for strength that went full fore-and-aft in the engine room (and used as engine bedding).

[Cooler]

I did find the article. I think the comment of hull sides using balsa core is a misleading play on words. If there is any balsa core on hull sides, that would be limited to the very top part of the hull side. Not any where near the water line or keel. I think his comment was generalized based on above hull techniques. The comment of balsa core in cabin and saloon is accurate, as those areas are all above the main hull structure. The stringers he describes are the top hat design type. It is normal they would be hollow, as they are built completely different than a typical wood encapsulated stringer. Top hat stringers are all fiberglass, so no wood exposed to water intrusion, and very strong support capabilities. Top hat stringers are about 6" wide, where the standard wood encapsulated stringers are about a third of that. They are referenced as top hat design because they look like a top hat with no brim. Hope this all makes sense. I will be seeing a guy who started with Carver right around 1986, and worked there for 30 years. I am going to check with him, as that article has me curious. In his final analysis, he mentions price points being comparable to 2 other brands, and I think his point was, "built stronger, at a similar price point". Find it interesting he says almost Hatteras/Bertram quality, at much lower price point. Hope this all makes sense. Good luck with your shopping! er

[buster53]

I do believe you made the right decision on this boat.
FWIW, I think the 4207 is a very nice boat as I had a 3807 of the same vintage and we liked it a lot.
However, we had big block 454’s and the boat was a dog. I can’t imagine a 4207 with the same engines. It’s gotta be a dog with fleas. That boat should have only been offered with diesels.

[Viper]

It's a good article and does describe the vessel correctly IMO. I'm also puzzled with the comparison to the 36, they're both multilevel, requiring stairs down fore and aft of the salon.

The "egg crate" hull support he talks about is spot on, it's the Top Hat system of stringers and supporting structures that's designed to support the hull, machinery and vessel structures that does a much better job than traditional stringer and rib designs. I'm not sure though that the statement "hull sides laid up using balsa coring" is completely accurate. I consider the hull sides from the gunwale to the chine and I'm pretty sure there's no core below the water. My understanding is also that the hull sides above the water line weren't completely cored either, but just a couple of feet from the gunwale down. It's possible that things changed over the course of production though. Maybe someone can confirm one way or the other.

Frankly I like the older design better than the newer European look with the narrow salon windows. I mean they look okay but you can't compare them to amount of light the older designs let in, they're so much brighter inside. As far as interior decorating, ya the older models are outdated but you can change that. It can easily be brought up to date by changing the soft goods. The teak is timeless so no need to touch that. The equipment would all be older of course and require replacement eventually but I suspect today's accessories and appliances won't last nearly as long unfortunately. You can't beat the amount of room for that size of boat though.

All in all, a well made model IMO made better with the diesel option. I was surprised to read though that in a MY, a charger, compass, and fire extinguishers would be optional equipment

KM, I don't get the "saloon" term either, it's also "salon" north of the boarder.

[bud37]

Salon or saloon....they are both correct.....even north of the border....... ...now is it harbour or harbor..

Lot's of times in motor boat / yacht reviews they will quote the original factory performance numbers. Now these were probably done with a brand spanking new boat, new shiny props , new slippery bottom and the boat was light ( tanks MT...etc etc.)....so the speeds will be off a fair bit from a boat in regular service fully loaded and wet. I always liked those models, we almost got one before the Mariner but the engines had too many hours.