Walter V Drive Systems Gearbox Q

[Viper]

Source of the post ....What is the round plastic thing near the fuel water separator? A vent for the gas tank I presume?...

It's a primary Oberg fuel filter. It has a round mesh disc filter inside. They can be cleaned. See link below:
https://www.marinepartssource.com/fuel-filter-screen-crusader-r077013

[Viper]

Source of the post.... I would guess it had less than two cups of water or so, mixed with trans fluid in the port trans....

That sounds like too much water to me.

Source of the post.... I took the gas line off of the fuel / water separator and it didn't smell like gas. It wasn't "varnish" or tarry, but it had a strong, sweet alcohol smell to it. Kind of smelled like anti-freeze and alcohol mixed together.......

Ethanol separation?

Source of the post .....There are no fittings at the bottom of the gas tank, and nothing comes out when I took the fuel line off of the water separator.....

For safety reasons, no fittings on the bottom of gasoline fuel tanks to minimize leaks. Simply removing a fuel line won't get you fuel, it requires a vacuum (pump). The fitting at the top of the tank that the fuel line hooks up to has an anti-siphon valve in it that prevents siphoning when you remove the hose from a fitting in the fuel circuit. Again, this is for safety reasons in case a fuel line or fitting in the circuit fails. You can try going through the fill port or remove the sender and go through there. This if fuel so ventilate ventilate ventilate and take measures to prevent a static discharge.

[390Express]

Source of the post

Source of the post.... I would guess it had less than two cups of water or so, mixed with trans fluid in the port trans....

That sounds like too much water to me.

Source of the post.... I took the gas line off of the fuel / water separator and it didn't smell like gas. It wasn't "varnish" or tarry, but it had a strong, sweet alcohol smell to it. Kind of smelled like anti-freeze and alcohol mixed together.......

Ethanol separation?

Source of the post .....There are no fittings at the bottom of the gas tank, and nothing comes out when I took the fuel line off of the water separator.....

For safety reasons, no fittings on the bottom of gasoline fuel tanks to minimize leaks. Simply removing a fuel line won't get you fuel, it requires a vacuum (pump). The fitting at the top of the tank that the fuel line hooks up to has an anti-siphon valve in it that prevents siphoning when you remove the hose from a fitting in the fuel circuit. Again, this is for safety reasons in case a fuel line or fitting in the circuit fails. You can try going through the fill port or remove the sender and go through there. This if fuel so ventilate ventilate ventilate and take measures to prevent a static discharge.

Just curious... "Too much water" for what? It's two winters worth of sitting. It seems reasonable to me that a cup and 1/2 or two cups of water could form in 2 years. The rest of the ATF fluid looked perfect, and no sediment. The boat only has approximately 400 hours on it. It's only the port motor that had water in the trans. I don't believe there are internal coolers on the trans. I suppose it could be possible that the trans cooler cracked and leaked, but it would seem to me that I would be over the fill level if that were the case.



Could be ethanol separation. I've never smelled bad gas before (aside from my gf's... )... I just know that it smelled like sweet smelling rubbing alcohol, mixed with... idk, tobacco or something tarry. Whatever it is, there's no way I'm going to run it through the EFI system.



Given that the plastic round thing turned out to be a filter, I may have had the routing of the gas lines wrong. There are two lines coming out of the tank. One goes to the fuel pump and the other to the filter. I'm guessing rather than the line going to the fuel pump being a feed, that the line going to the fuel pump may actually be a return to the tank, with the fuel filter coming before the feed to the fuel pump? I'm not sure how Crusader ran their gaslines.
You would use less line to run it to the pump first, I believe, but most fuel pump manufacturers (Aeromotive, Holley, Comp., etc.) suggest that its better to filter the gas before the pump, rather than after, to prevent a failure. There's a lot of traffic near the pump, it's tough to tell what's going on, but if I'm deliberate about it, I'm sure I can get a better idea.

Does anyone know 1) if I can (easily) put power to the fuel pump that's there? (and if so, how) This will help me determine if the installed fuel pump is working, and I may be able to use that pump to extract the old fuel., and/or 2) what size threaded fitting I will need to screw into the old fitting on the fuel line going to the water separator? The fuel line is removed with a 3/4" wrench. I'm guessing I will need a 1/2 thread or 9/16 thread, but not sure if it's more like an -AN fitting or if it's just regular pipe thread?

[390Express]

Source of the post https://www.marinepartssource.com/fuel- ... er-r077013

They're proud of those things!... $80 seems steep for a 4" screen.

[Viper]

Up our way, there is only a certain window during the year where temps generate any meaningful amount of condensation; end of winter beginning of spring. Condensation accumulates on the inside housing surface and the amount of housing area plays a large roll on how much condensation is produced. Considering its size, that much water seems like a lot me ....IMO. I've dealt with resurrecting a lot of boats on the hard for much longer than two years and have never seen that much water in a tranny unless there was a problem. I haven't come across that much water in an engine that's sat for years and it would have the potential to condensate more than a tranny. Anything's possible given the right conditions but that would be enough of a red flag to warrant further diagnosis in hopes of averting an expensive tranny failure IMO.

If you plan on keeping your current fuel pump, I wouldn't be using it to pump out what's in your tank. If it is phase separation, you'll be pumping water which will shorten the life of your pump if not end it in short order.

[bud37]

390, a question...looking around the bilge, is there any evidence you have noticed of a high level of water at any time ?

[Viper]

Do you have an FCC (Fuel Control Cell)? It'll be a long canister that will look like a filter assembly. Or you may have a fuel cooler module with fuel lines and water lines going to it. Both have a harness and plug on top. The top of both will have the hi pressure fuel pump in it and the FCC will have a fuel filter inside its canister. They plumbed these a couple of different ways. One returned to the tank and the other did not. I'm used to seeing returns to the fuel tank incorporate the FCC instead of the fuel cooler module so you should look to see if you have the FCC. What's confusing is that I don't see another port next to your Oberg filter on the bracket that supports it which is what I'm used to seeing for the return to the tank, and I don't recall seeing an FCC with a separate water separating filter so confirming which system you have would help understand the setup.

[Viper]

Source of the post

Source of the post https://www.marinepartssource.com/fuel- ... er-r077013

They're proud of those things!... $80 seems steep for a 4" screen.

This was just an example of the Crusader branded unit but you can likely get an actual Oberg cheaper.

[390Express]

Source of the post 390, a question...looking around the bilge, is there any evidence you have noticed of a high level of water at any time ?

There was water intrusion at one time. The boathouse above the boat collapsed and shifted the boat off of it's lift, forcing the aft lower on the port side than it should have been. I'm not entirely sure where the water came in. (through the exhaust port, or otherwise... it happened during a storm), or how high. The boat doesn't appear to have been left that way for an extended period of time, and there is no clear sign of a water line. It's obvious that no one has cleaned the bilge, or changed any of the fluids since. It's pretty grimy, and any fluid that I would expect to have water in it, still has water in it.

I do know that the generator got wet, which sits far to the aft, (and now throws a code for a bad "board", but otherwise cranks over and has compression) as did the port alternator, which was obviously rusty, locked up, and in bad shape. The water level does not appear to have gotten as high as the carburetor on the generator. It cranks over fine, and the oil in the generator is fine as well. (but I will be replacing it) The water level did not reach the cabin area. The carpet, cushions, etc. are all fine, with no signs of water, and no water smell.

Depending on the angle of the boat, it seems unlikely that water could have gotten into the port transmission. I would estimate a 1-2 cups of water are what came out, and to be clear, that is 1-2 cups worth of milkshake water/transmission fluid mix. If water entered due to being submerged, I would expect the trans to have been full. The fluid level, even with the water, was a bit on the low side.

The Stbd side seems like the side that was left high out of the water after the boat shifted on the lift. Everything on that side of the boat is dry. (starters, alternators, etc.) All of the electrical connections on the EFI system on both motors are dry as well. It's pretty obvious where the water got to an electrical connection and where it didn't. Like I said, the port alternator was toast. I should have taken a pic.

Source of the post Up our way, there is only a certain window during the year where temps generate any meaningful amount of condensation; end of winter beginning of spring. Condensation accumulates on the inside housing surface and the amount of housing area plays a large roll on how much condensation is produced. Considering its size, that much water seems like a lot me ....IMO. I've dealt with resurrecting a lot of boats on the hard for much longer than two years and have never seen that much water in a tranny unless there was a problem. I haven't come across that much water in an engine that's sat for years and it would have the potential to condensate more than a tranny. Anything's possible given the right conditions but that would be enough of a red flag to warrant further diagnosis in hopes of averting an expensive tranny failure IMO.

If you plan on keeping your current fuel pump, I wouldn't be using it to pump out what's in your tank. If it is phase separation, you'll be pumping water which will shorten the life of your pump if not end it in short order.

Thank you for the clarification. I'm 50/50 as to whether or not I plan on keeping the fuel pump(s). They mount on the bottom of the motor, I'm fairly certain the port motor fuel pump was submerged. I will use a separate pump to extract the fuel, and go from there. They wouldn't be too difficult to change. Any idea what a new fuel pump would cost? I'll try to post a pic of the model.

I have no idea if I have a FCC or a cool fuel system. I'll check that out either tomorrow or this weekend. I thought I had the routing of the fuel system right in my head, but I'm not sure if Crusader would put the filter before or after the fuel pump. More pics to come!

Thanks for the updates and information. That gas is coming out this weekend, one way or another.

Does anyone know what size fitting I need to thread onto the fuel line, so I can attach a barbed fitting and hook it up to a different pump? It unscrews with a 3/4 wrench. I'm guessing the I.D. is 1/2", not sure if being a fuel fitting if it has an odd thread size, or if it is std.

[tomschauer]

Most of the tank / fuel fittings are 3/8 mip, if your not sure get 3/8 and 1/2. I really doubt its anything other than those two sizes.
The only other thing I have to add is most electric fuel pumps are totally sealed and being submerged wont hurt them so long as fuel lines were attached.
Good luck!