ProMariner Combi Inverter Chargers

[Helmsman]

Question for the board.

I am assessing installing an inverter.

I began by looking at the ProMariner Combi Inverter which Viper had mentioned was ignition protected in another post. I already have a 60amp Charger which charges the two engine batteries and the one house battery with a three way isolator involved. (I realize I will need to come up with more battery power for the house.)

I would rather install an ignition protected inverter (not a Combi) below deck in the gas engine compartment, but the Combi is the only one I can find that is ignition protected. I noticed that the Combi also states that the temperature should not get above 104 degrees where it is located. I would imagine the engine room gets warmer than that. There isn’t a good location above deck to place the Inverter which is driving the concern. I could put it up there, but may have to put the larger battery bank towards the rear of the boat under the cockpit, so now the wiring is a long run from the installed chargers back to the cockpit batteries,then forward and to starboard to the Inverter and then back down for the electric panel.

Any thoughts on which direction to go? It is a 2006 Carver 33 SS.

[bud37]

I have never installed one of these, but considering what you are saying I think my choice would be to find an installation spot to keep the 12volt wiring side as short as possible to keep voltage drop to a minimum.Are there any hidden spots behind /under sofas/cabinets you could take over that may have some airflow.?...I look forward to seeing how this is done......

[Helmsman]

Source of the post I have never installed one of these, but considering what you are saying I think my choice would be to find an installation spot to keep the 12volt wiring side as short as possible to keep voltage drop to a minimum.Are there any hidden spots behind /under sofas/cabinets you could take over that may have some airflow.?...I look forward to seeing how this is done......

No Area with airflow. That is part of the issue. Have a good friend who is a marine mechanic/electrician and he said that he would help in March to install. Prior to getting there, I want to learn as much as I can about possible options to ensure that I make the right choices.

[Helmsman]

Ok. I have decided to cut a cabinet into the corner of the kitchen cabinets. It is in between the DC panel for bilge pumps etc. and the AC/DC panels so it will be close to the batteries (6 to 8 feet max) and convenient to the panels.

I am now thinking about which inverter to go with. On another forum, I read not to buy a zantrex due to quality issues. I originally was going to go with a ProMariner so I could mount in the gas engine compartment. Now that I am moving “upstairs” I can look at other models. Tentative specs will be a 2000 pure sine wave inverter/Charger (may end up larger) with 4 6 volt 210 amp hour batteries combined to generate 12 volt 420 amp hours. In addition, I would like 120 volt pass through capability. My AC panel is set up as a double panel (two 30 amp shore power inputs) one has the AC and battery chargers. The other has the microwave, lights, navigation, water pump, etc. (including the water heater which I wouldn't use under way.

My usage is primarily lake usage interspersed with two to three day trips up and down the Tennessee River.

If I do go with a charger incorporated into the inverter it will probably just be for the house bank. The current 60 amp Charles Charger currently charges three batteries (two engine,one house). It is original to the boat and I would use it for the two engine batteries. There is also a Charles 10 amp Charger for the Koehler 7200 watt generator. Both of these chargers are 11 years old.

Here are my questions.

What is the best inverter or charger inverter on the market considering price, build quality, etc. opinions and experience welcome. Magnum’s look like good quality. Fan noise may end up being a concern since it is in the cabin.

Should I go with a charger/inverter? It is a qualitative question I guess. I was thinking if the other charger gives up the ghost, I could just add the engine batteries to the charge from the inverter. If I did that, I guess I would need an isolator, though the wiring for it is lost on me at this point.

I could still go with the ProMariner in the engine compartment, but it says the operating temperature is limited to 104 degrees. I would think the engine compartment gets warmer than that. Thoughts on that would be appreciated too.

[bud37]

Here is a link to a calculator that may help doing the conversion numbers for you.....remember your battery bank at 420ah can be pulled down max to 50%, which is 210 available .....then you have to put it back.......so that 210 leg on your charger ,charging at 20 amps lets say for the sake of this would take 210/20=10.5 hours recharge time ( just an idea for you to consider), obviously not the same as your exact situation ( worst case but still something to consider).Have a look and do some math for what your draws are going to be thru your inverter.

https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/tools/a ... erter.html

[Viper]

The only other units I would recommend are Magnum, Victron, and Charles. I can't recall though which charging circuitry Charles is using in their inverter/charger combination units. Charles makes both integrated circuit (fully electronic) and ferroresonant chargers, and while the ferroresonent design has a place in the charging world, there are considerations to be aware of in marine use. This was the older technology before smart charger circuitry was introduced, though ferroresonant technology has changed in recent years.

I'm sure there are a ton of other non-marine brand units on the market but I have no experience with them and can't comment on efficiency, quality, longevity, reliability, safety, etc.

BTW, the problems with Zantrex were from older designs. The company and design have gone through changes which I've been told have resulted in a design that has corrected the issues they had in the past. Haven't installed their new generation product yet or heard any feedback except that they are not the same units as before but I can't offer an opinion on them yet.

[Helmsman]

Source of the post Here is a link to a calculator that may help doing the conversion numbers for you.....remember your battery bank at 420ah can be pulled down max to 50%, which is 210 available .....then you have to put it back.......so that 210 leg on your charger ,charging at 20 amps lets say for the sake of this would take 210/20=10.5 hours recharge time ( just an idea for you to consider), obviously not the same as your exact situation ( worst case but still something to consider).Have a look and do some math for what your draws are going to be thru your inverter.

https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/tools/a ... erter.html

Thanks. That was what I was thinking, too. It would seem isolating the house bank to its own Charger (some inverters show up to 100amps May charge the batteries faster. I am considering putting AGM in the house bank so separating them from the starter battery (wet cell) charger would make sense.

I have read to give the 50% drain a haircut for inefficiency also.

I still need to go through the draws on the boat to assess what I will need, though the plan would be gennie if I need AC, or hot water.

[Helmsman]

Source of the post The only other units I would recommend are Magnum, Victron, and Charles. I can't recall though which charging circuitry Charles is using in their inverter/charger combination units. Charles makes both integrated circuit (fully electronic) and ferroresonant chargers, and while the ferroresonent design has a place in the charging world, there are considerations to be aware of in marine use. This was the older technology before smart charger circuitry was introduced, though ferroresonant technology has changed in recent years.

I'm sure there are a ton of other non-marine brand units on the market but I have no experience with them and can't comment on efficiency, quality, longevity, reliability, safety, etc.

BTW, the problems with Zantrex were from older designs. The company and design have gone through changes which I've been told have resulted in a design that has corrected the issues they had in the past. Haven't installed their new generation product yet or heard any feedback except that they are not the same units as before but I can't offer an opinion on them yet.

Viper, have you had any experience with the ProMariner? I have seen opinions on Xantrex and Magnum but almost nothing on ProMariner. One of the threads I looked at said the same thing you mentioned about Xantrex. So, I think I am down to Magnum or ProMariner.

Thanks for the help!

[Viper]

Yes I've installed all the ones mentioned above, even older Xantrex with no issues. I've also installed Promariners both in and out of engine compartments. No heat related issues with engine compartment installs but every boat is. Before you go that route, take your boat out on a regular run, then shut it down, wait about 15 minutes and quickly take a temp reading with an IR gun at a metal object that's down low in the bilge in an area where you might be able to install the unit and see what the temp is. If it's too high, you'll need an alternative location. If I had to buy a unit for myself, I'd probably go with Magnum.

The issue I'd have a hard time deciding is how I would hook it up; don't know that I would use the shore power pass through method. That seems to be the biggest problem I've run into with any brand incorporating that feature. When that fails, you could lose all AC power from the dock unless designs have changed more recently. The alternative is to install a source selector switch/breaker where you would select the AC source manually. Less to go wrong IMO.

No matter which one you go with, read the installation instructions carefully and follow the marine installation procedures. Don't skimp on material quality. Use marine quality connectors and wiring. If you don't, it'll be unsafe and won't pass a survey by a qualified surveyor next time you have one done to satisfy the insurance company, or a potential boat buyer.

[km1125]

One thing that's nice with a combo inverter/charger, is that they can regulate the charger to avoid overloading the circuit when there are other loads. I'm not sure if this applies to all inverter/chargers, but the Heart Interface inverter (branded WestMarine) I had did that. If there are large loads going through the inverter (from shore), then it will reduce the charger so it won't overload the input breaker.

I'm looking at a similar setup as you describe.... having a small dual output charger for the engine batteries, then a large charger (combined with the inverter) dedicated to the house.