ProMariner Combi Inverter Chargers

[km1125]

Just thinking "out of the box" and a couple suggestions:

Simpler is always better, but to get around some tough components that might be required (such as mounting the batteries farther away, or needing to have the inverter out of the engine room) a more innovative approach might be called for.

Perhaps going to a 24VDC or 48VDC inverter could be used. The wire runs can be safely done with smaller gauge, as you're now using 1/2 or 1/4 the amperage. The numbers of batteries stays the same, just the configuration changes. You then use a 24>12v or 48>12v DC-to_DC converter to supply all the other loads.

There was some mention about a coffee maker being a big load. Some do draw 1200w, but they only do so for about 10 minutes, meaning it's only about 18-20 A-H out of a 200A-H usable house bank. So it would be more similar to running the microwave, which only runs for seconds or minutes, rather than a fridge or HVAC which runs for hours.

[Viper]

Going with a higher voltage unit is a sound option in some cases, it would solve the wire size issue, but in a boat with all 12 volt systems it adds a measure of complication and a higher expense all the same. You'll have no way to charge the higher voltage bank while the engines are running unless you upgrade one of the alternators. You'll also have to find yet another location for the converter. It won't be in the engine compartment as I have yet to find an ignition proof unit. It would have to be a unit matched to the potential of the bank. I suspect by the time it's all said and done, the expense may not be much different than the wiring required for a 12 volt system except that you've now added more hardware, more to go wrong.

[Helmsman]

Source of the post I've had two pass-thru functions fail which left the owners with no AC power. That was several years ago and I haven't had to respond to a similar instance since so designs may have changed. Check the manual of the unit you plan on buying, if you don't want to use the pass-thru feature, you simply don't hook up your shore power to the inverter but you must use a source selector switch. I wouldn't let the feature discourage you, you just need to be aware of the potential to fail and what the symptom would be and have a plan to regain AC power while the unit is out getting repaired or waiting for a replacement. I just like having more control, it usually results in a lower failure rates over automatic systems, and I get a better sense of safety when it's my finger on the switch.

Makes sense. Thanks for laying the issue out for me. Will give it some thought prior to making a decision.

[Helmsman]

Source of the post Just thinking "out of the box" and a couple suggestions:

Simpler is always better, but to get around some tough components that might be required (such as mounting the batteries farther away, or needing to have the inverter out of the engine room) a more innovative approach might be called for.

Perhaps going to a 24VDC or 48VDC inverter could be used. The wire runs can be safely done with smaller gauge, as you're now using 1/2 or 1/4 the amperage. The numbers of batteries stays the same, just the configuration changes. You then use a 24>12v or 48>12v DC-to_DC converter to supply all the other loads.

There was some mention about a coffee maker being a big load. Some do draw 1200w, but they only do so for about 10 minutes, meaning it's only about 18-20 A-H out of a 200A-H usable house bank. So it would be more similar to running the microwave, which only runs for seconds or minutes, rather than a fridge or HVAC which runs for hours.

Thanks! I would be concerned about adding more “pieces”. I will just locate the house batteries in the battery well and move the engine batteries else where if I need to.

[Helmsman]

Ok. I took a run with a temp stick where the Promariner would be located in the engine room. Found that the engine room temp got all the way up to 122 degrees after shutting off. While underway the temp was in the 100 to 115 range. I had the blower on while running and shut it off at anchorage right after stopping and also after docking. So it looks like the Promariner is out as an alternative.

That will mean the inverter will need to go “upstairs”. Would be interested to know if anyone on this forum has a Carver 33 SS, 35SS, or 37 that has an inverter and where theirs is located.

Thanks for any help you can give.

[Helmsman]

OK. Finally getting ready to install the inverter. I have a marine electrician who will be assisting. He has suggested that I create a new bank of 4 golf cart AGM batteries (420 amp hours) using a ProMariner PS 2000 inverter/charger which is ignition protected. We plan to set it up in the engine room between the generator (which is aft) and the engines (amidships) over the freshwater tank.

I will contunue to use the current battery setup for the generator, the two engines, and the original house battery (4 batteries total). The new inverter with the four golf cart batteries will power the house outlets, the refrigerator, and the microwave.

I will be measuring engine room Temperature this weekend at the same location that the proposed inverter will be placed. The DC cable lengths with this setup should be no greater than 6 feet, even if I have to place the inverter in a closet under the steps on the covered cockpit (due to engine room heat). The inverter max temp is 104 degrees though the Promariner tech I spoke with said that it would not completely shut down until 120 degrees.

So, here are my questions for the board.....

In order to charge all of the batteries (the 4 old and the 4 new) using the 70 amp alternators on the two Crusaders, he has suggested we change out the existing “three battery” isolator to two “two battery” isolators. The port alternator isolator would power the original house battery and the port engine battery. The starboard isolator will power the starboard start battery and the new batteries attached to the inverter. Other than the obvious downside of losing the ability to have the two engines charged by either alternator under the old scenario, does anyone see any other issues to be aware of with the isolator change?

I will need to cut vents in the plastic door of the closet I use for the inverter. Anyone cut that stuff before? I plan to use my router to cut the vents. A little concerned about it melting.

Anyone have any comments on the setup in general?

[g36]

seems your install is getting rather complicated. i took my existing start/ house battery out and replaced it with my golf cart bank. i ran this same set up on my trojan f32 for 8 yrs and have run this same set up on my carver for 6 now. i use trojan t105's and monitor their condtion with a vitron battery monitor and do not go below 1/2 capacity.. using stock alternators starting and house batteries are being charged while running. i would keep it simple . i have a sepaerate charger and inverter not a combo but thats just me.
i dont really care to charge my genset battery unless the genset is running or plugged in at the dock. so all i charge while running the mains is golf cart house bank and one start battery. if my gen battery dies and wont start it i figure i've got enough batteries around it to wire up to do so. i've never had this problem yet.

[Helmsman]

seems your install is getting rather complicated. i took my existing start/ house battery out and replaced it with my golf cart bank. i ran this same set up on my trojan f32 for 8 yrs and have run this same set up on my carver for 6 now. i use trojan t105's and monitor their condtion with a vitron battery monitor and do not go below 1/2 capacity.. using stock alternators starting and house batteries are being charged while running. i would keep it simple . i have a sepaerate charger and inverter not a combo but thats just me.
i dont really care to charge my genset battery unless the genset is running or plugged in at the dock. so all i charge while running the mains is golf cart house bank and one start battery. if my gen battery dies and wont start it i figure i've got enough batteries around it to wire up to do so. i've never had this problem yet.

The issue I am dealing with is the length of DC cable and the space in the existing battery well. I can’t fit the new house battery configuration in the well. The width of the battery well is 10 and 3/8” and the batteries are at 10 and 1/4” without the battery battery tie downs. Even if I could, getting the DC cable to the inverter up in the cabin is a fairly long run(8 or 9 feet).

The pro to this is the refrigerator and outlets will run off the new higher amp hour batteries through the inverter, while the old house will handle the rest of the DC feeds. The con is that there is some complication to the system.

I don’t think my generator is charged by the alternators now, though I am not sure.

[g36]

Assuming a ac dc fridge I would just let it run on dc. No sense in loosing efficency by converting to ac. I run my icerrette icemaker ,tv and sat dish and ac/dc vitrfigo (fridge only not through invertor) pulling about 26 amps out of the bank whi c h isn't a lot. Will get a spike for a compressor start of couse . I actually have larger bank in my 405. Measuring with my battery monitor. Dont know what all you plan on running at one time but the 70amp charger will probably be what you need to concern yourself with on sizing the wire. There's only so much you reasonably can draw with a 2000 inverter and 4 golf cart bank anyway. Like forget trying to run water heater , and I seldom run my microwave on it cause its probably time to run the ac to cool the boat down or in the am when I need to charge the battery bank and cook breakfast. When you run your charger then all will be back on ac again not inverter so depending if your charger can output 70 amps not sure how many amps at one time you are thinkingfor wire sizing

[Helmsman]

Source of the post Assuming a ac dc fridge I would just let it run on dc. No sense in loosing efficency by converting to ac. I run my icerrette icemaker ,tv and sat dish and ac/dc vitrfigo (fridge only not through invertor) pulling about 26 amps out of the bank whi c h isn't a lot. Will get a spike for a compressor start of couse . I actually have larger bank in my 405. Measuring with my battery monitor. Dont know what all you plan on running at one time but the 70amp charger will probably be what you need to concern yourself with on sizing the wire. There's only so much you reasonably can draw with a 2000 inverter and 4 golf cart bank anyway. Like forget trying to run water heater , and I seldom run my microwave on it cause its probably time to run the ac to cool the boat down or in the am when I need to charge the battery bank and cook breakfast. When you run your charger then all will be back on ac again not inverter so depending if your charger can output 70 amps not sure how many amps at one time you are thinkingfor wire sizing

Not planning to use the water heater with the inverter. Since I have 420 amps on the inverter bank and 105 amps on the house after installation, it makes sense for me to run the fridge through the inverter. If the inverter goes down we would still have DC power to it. Wire size will be decided by my marine electrician friend. I asked him to err on the side of caution. We will see what he thinks.

The other alternative to this is to place the engine batteries above the water tank and combine the house and inverter feeds in the original battery well if I can get them to fit and the length of DC wire to the inverter cabinet is not too long.

I have to figure out if the gennie battery is being charged via the alternator. If it is, I don’t want to give up that capability.