Welcome to Carver Yachts Owners Forum

We are a boating forum for owners of Carver Yachts to enthusiastically discuss all aspects of Carver Boat ownership. Whether you are looking for your first Carver or currently own one, you are sure to feel at home on CarverYachtOwners.com

You are currently viewing our board as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to searching the forum topics, post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

454xli Repower

GAS engine, transmission and generator repair and maintenance discussion forum.
User avatar

United States of America
waybomb
CYO Moderator
CYO Moderator
Posts: 2502
Joined: February 5th, 2013, 9:24 pm
Vessel Info: 1995 Boston Whaler Rage15
1987 3697 Carver Mariner
1988 Cougar 46 Kevlar Vee offshore
1969 15' Glasspar / 1967 Johnson Electromatic 85
Location: Saint Joseph,Mi
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 426 times

Re: 454xli Repower

Postby waybomb » May 15th, 2018, 5:50 pm

Sound to me like a plugged oil cooler on the water side. Some impeller pieces maybe?
Thanks
Fred
1969 Glaspar Avalon /1967 Johnson Electromatic 85
1987 Carver Mariner
1988 Cougar Kevlar 46' with triple blown 572 ci
1995 Boston Whaler Rage
Past - 1988 2807, 1989 4207 Aft

User avatar

Topic author United States of America
SanJuanDreamer
First Mate
First Mate
Posts: 170
Joined: April 4th, 2016, 4:02 pm
Vessel Info: Still Searching
Location: Seattle
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: 454xli Repower

Postby SanJuanDreamer » May 15th, 2018, 6:36 pm

After speaking with a local shop, they found it odd that 454's would be running that low.
I have an appointment with their mechanic to hook up a mechanical oil pressure gauge.
It was mentioned that 454 bottom ends can last up to 2000 - 2500hrs (Depending on care) so were going to check.
User avatar

Canada
bud37
Admiral
Admiral
Posts: 4865
Joined: April 23rd, 2015, 10:22 pm
Has thanked: 579 times
Been thanked: 1210 times

Re: 454xli Repower

Postby bud37 » May 15th, 2018, 7:00 pm

SanJuanDreamer wrote:Source of the post After speaking with a local shop, they found it odd that 454's would be running that low.
I have an appointment with their mechanic to hook up a mechanical oil pressure gauge.
It was mentioned that 454 bottom ends can last up to 2000 - 2500hrs (Depending on care) so were going to check.

When he does,if you can have him check the oil temp in the pan with an ir gun as you go thru the rpm range, should give you and him a better idea of the coolers and what is up with the pressure.....it actually is somewhat normal to have oil temp swings after hard runs that recover, but the only way to tell for sure is with the temp gun.
You say your good engine is the same?? Compare the two.
The above is strictly my opinion.

Canada
Viper
CYO Supporter
CYO Supporter
Posts: 5975
Joined: July 10th, 2015, 9:58 pm
Vessel Info: 1989 Carver 3807 Aft Cabin
Location: Ontario, Canada
Has thanked: 455 times
Been thanked: 1671 times

Re: 454xli Repower

Postby Viper » May 15th, 2018, 8:36 pm

You can also have them send in an oil sample to a lab. That will tell you if there's abnormal main bearing wear.
User avatar

United States of America
390Express
Captain
Captain
Posts: 238
Joined: April 6th, 2018, 2:15 pm
Vessel Info: 1996 390 Trojan Express
Location: Michigan
Has thanked: 141 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: 454xli Repower

Postby 390Express » May 18th, 2018, 12:43 pm

I can post a pic of a 1996 454 Crusader XL, TBI if it’s helpful. Mine has a std, cast iron intake, and adaptor plate for the TBI.
User avatar

Topic author United States of America
SanJuanDreamer
First Mate
First Mate
Posts: 170
Joined: April 4th, 2016, 4:02 pm
Vessel Info: Still Searching
Location: Seattle
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: 454xli Repower

Postby SanJuanDreamer » May 21st, 2018, 4:35 pm

Update - Mechanic came down and ran a compression check on the Port engine, as the previous shop couldn't provide the numbers when I had asked three times. They only said #4 was in bad shape.....
The only low spot we found was #3 at 130lbs, still within spec, but -2lbs less and it would be problem.
We ran it at 13rpm for about 20-25 minutes and the oil pressure stayed steady at 55lbs. Brought down to idle and again the oil pressure was steady.
The dash gauges showed the same as the mechanical gauge.
After he left, I took her out and ran her at 3600rpm for about 15 minutes and reduced to idle.
The gauges dropped to ~5lbs. After some time as the engines cooled, they slowly came back up.
Engine temp held steady at 170-075.

The oil was changed 10hrs ago, it smells gassey, which indicates gas is getting by cylinders or the TBI is providing too much fuel.
Going to use it gently over the summer and schedule for a repower.
User avatar

United States of America
390Express
Captain
Captain
Posts: 238
Joined: April 6th, 2018, 2:15 pm
Vessel Info: 1996 390 Trojan Express
Location: Michigan
Has thanked: 141 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: 454xli Repower

Postby 390Express » May 21st, 2018, 6:16 pm

SanJuanDreamer wrote:Source of the post Update - Mechanic came down and ran a compression check on the Port engine, as the previous shop couldn't provide the numbers when I had asked three times. They only said #4 was in bad shape.....
The only low spot we found was #3 at 130lbs, still within spec, but -2lbs less and it would be problem.
We ran it at 13rpm for about 20-25 minutes and the oil pressure stayed steady at 55lbs. Brought down to idle and again the oil pressure was steady.
The dash gauges showed the same as the mechanical gauge.
After he left, I took her out and ran her at 3600rpm for about 15 minutes and reduced to idle.
The gauges dropped to ~5lbs. After some time as the engines cooled, they slowly came back up.
Engine temp held steady at 170-075.

The oil was changed 10hrs ago, it smells gassey, which indicates gas is getting by cylinders or the TBI is providing too much fuel.
Going to use it gently over the summer and schedule for a repower.


If you have even relatively good compression, and you're still getting fuel in your oil, you should be running extremely rich. Are you getting a lot of black smoke from your exhaust? Have you done anything to your motors that would have effected your tune? Is your plug hot enough? Do your plugs look saturated?

I'm not saying that your motors aren't tired, but I would do what you can to stop washing out your oil. If at all possible, I would try to run a hotter plug, more gap, better wires/cap, etc. If you get the fuel out of your oil, you may get your oil pressure up.
User avatar

United States of America
km1125
Admiral
Admiral
Posts: 3500
Joined: February 28th, 2017, 6:04 pm
Has thanked: 69 times
Been thanked: 1043 times

Re: 454xli Repower

Postby km1125 » May 21st, 2018, 7:01 pm

How is your oil level after you do these run? I can't imagine enough gas diluting the oil to cause your oil pressure to drop to ~5psi and then disappear after the engine cools for a bit. Maybe if it sat for a week. I would think if that gas was evaporating and that was the reason your oil was 'thickening' after sitting, then you'd have a STRONG gas odor after the engines ran.

Did you ever check the OIL temperature after -or while- you have it up to temperature?

Hot oil is also going to degrade a lot faster over the season and cause your engine to wear more. I wouldn't be overly concerned about 130 psi as much as I would the 5psi. You could run that 130psi cylinder for YEARS but I wouldn't bet so much on the 5psi.
User avatar

United States of America
km1125
Admiral
Admiral
Posts: 3500
Joined: February 28th, 2017, 6:04 pm
Has thanked: 69 times
Been thanked: 1043 times

Re: 454xli Repower

Postby km1125 » May 21st, 2018, 7:02 pm

Another thought.... Do you have separate trans and engine oil coolers or do you have the integrated "U" style unit? I'd also wonder what your trans oil temperature was after a cruising run.

Also, going back to the OP, the original issue was:
She has 1510hrs on both motors and port motor has a serious miss.
Shop says #4 cylinder is not holding compression.
Blue smoke and gas smell is strong.

Do you still have the serious miss, or was that resolved somehow?

Have you looked at fuel pressure ? You could have a faulty pressure regulator or a vacuum leak that is causing the pressure to be way too high and run it rich while at less the WOT.... that would cause dilution of the oil too. That could cause a miss too, on random cylinders.
User avatar

Canada
bud37
Admiral
Admiral
Posts: 4865
Joined: April 23rd, 2015, 10:22 pm
Has thanked: 579 times
Been thanked: 1210 times

Re: 454xli Repower

Postby bud37 » May 21st, 2018, 8:51 pm

SJD ....here is my advice....keep the rpm down, don't run the engines hard.....this discussion will just circle until your guy gets some oil temp readings before during and after a hard run.....if it is determined you have some noise ( clatter, knocking) when you see the 5psi pressure then put some heavy oil in there for the balance of the season.....quite honestly 5 after a hard run is still pretty close to minimum spec for hot oil at idle.Hopefully it is a fuel dilution problem or I believe as someone mentioned an engine oil cooler plugged if you have an engine oil cooler.
The above is strictly my opinion.

Return to “Gas Engines/Transmissions”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 108 guests