Prop question

[bud37]

Qr Bbpost It's a must under some circumstances. The scary thing is how few techs even know they're supposed to do it at all.

Any time I have had props scanned, cleaned and balanced I have lapped them back on. With new ones I would think it is even more imperative. Really only takes a few minutes more.

I thought Georgian taught this method ?

[Helmsman]

I didn’t know about the technique. I have a broker friend who is helping me get help on the boat. So, he wasn’t aware, and here we are. Two mechanics I spoke with also didn’t know. I think it is part of the problem with the marine maintenance industry here. There is one marina on this lake that can pull anything over 36 feet. The same is true one lake north and one lake south. They control all out of water work that needs to be done. There are about 10 or 12 large marinas on these three lakes with thousands of large boats.

That set up encourages a lot of bad practices here. I am pretty confident in saying that a leaking boat should not take less priority than other boats, but that is exactly what happened for four months to me. In fact, the “excuse” they used to “bump me“ into getting it fixed was just that. “The boat is leaking so we need to take care of it now.” They knew that for four months previously.

As in any industry that lacks competition, the quality of work has receded while the price has skyrocketed. It doesn’t make them bad people. But, what it does, is do a real disservice to the big boat marine industry customers here.

I believe if someone knowledgeable about best business practices got into the game, it would be really healthy for the customers here. I have thought about it more than once.

One independent mechanic here told me that a local marina told him to charge whatever he wants. They were just going to add a margin to it and pass it along to the customer. That tells me the customer market, with few to no other alternatives, has no choice other than to accept it. I don’t think skill credentials were checked, nor quality checks by marina personnel were completed post work, etc. etc.

That also indicates getting skilled mechanics is also an issue. It is interesting that is the case, since the pay is about $110 an hour in an area with one of the lowest cost of living in the US. On the flip side, the level of complexity mechanics deal with in boating is extremely high, and must take years of experience to achieve a high level of competency, so they should be compensated highly. My point is that there doesn’t seem to be an apprentice program in place, though there may be.

There isn’t an ABYC certified electrician on any of these lakes. There are north and south of here.

So, owning a larger boat here carries more risk with it than elsewhere. It also carries more downtime.

One of you enterprising guys need to create a “drive up lift within the water”. That would be a game changer, I think.

[Viper]

Qr Bbpost

Qr Bbpost It's a must under some circumstances. The scary thing is how few techs even know they're supposed to do it at all.

....I thought Georgian taught this method ?

Really depends on the instructor I think, and the length of the course. Years ago it was a 3-4 year curriculum, then got reduced to 1 year because of a shortage in demand. The original program included a fiberglass component where you could then branch off into specializing in it. That's been gone for almost 20 years now. Young guys just weren't interested in the amount of work and conditions involved, layoffs in winter, etc. I doubt mating the prop/shaft surfaces was covered in the 1 year program, just too much to squeeze into a short time. Recently they've introduced an apprentice program but there are concerns about reduced attendance and the possibility of shutting the program down. Even with an apprenticeship, I can tell you that the kids still come out of it pretty green. I've dealt with a few and it's pretty surprising at how little they really know, but it is a learning curve like anything else. The thing that kills me is that's what marina owners are hiring along with some that don't know boats at all to replace experienced people. Who teaches the apprentice? Then they send them on a million dollar boat to do repairs and wonder why things go wrong. But hey, the marina has reduced their payroll!!

[Helmsman]

Qr Bbpost

Qr Bbpost

Qr Bbpost It's a must under some circumstances. The scary thing is how few techs even know they're supposed to do it at all.

....I thought Georgian taught this method ?

Really depends on the instructor I think, and the length of the course. Years ago it was a 3-4 year curriculum, then got reduced to 1 year because of a shortage in demand. The original program included a fiberglass component where you could then branch off into specializing in it. That's been gone for almost 20 years now. Young guys just weren't interested in the amount of work and conditions involved, layoffs in winter, etc. I doubt mating the prop/shaft surfaces was covered in the 1 year program, just too much to squeeze into a short time. Recently they've introduced an apprentice program but there are concerns about reduced attendance and the possibility of shutting the program down. Even with an apprenticeship, I can tell you that the kids still come out of it pretty green. I've dealt with a few and it's pretty surprising at how little they really know, but it is a learning curve like anything else. The thing that kills me is that's what marina owners are hiring along with some that don't know boats at all to replace experienced people. Who teaches the apprentice? Then they send them on a million dollar boat to do repairs and wonder why things go wrong. But hey, the marina has reduced their payroll!!

Boy, does that resonate with me.

For instance, the diver who replaced my props didn’t know. He also was sufficiently concerned about the whole issue to infer that the re-propping would be done at his expense. I told him that wouldn’t work. When he comes up to re-prop he will get paid for that work. It isn’t the kid’s fault, in my opinion.

Now the inverter issues I discussed with you guys is a different story, because the “best electrician on the lake” completed the work. I won’t recover the labor Charges on it, and will complete the job myself. But, I will send him, in writing, all of the issues surrounding the install and suggest he call any customers that he has installed inverters for and go check for the same issues. We will see how he responds.

[Helmsman]

Well, I had the original props scanned and fixed. The starboard was bent. The prop shop worked them and got it as close as he could possibly could to perfect. The diver showed up on time Thursday evening and pulled the old (new) ones. Friday night he put the repaired ones on. This morning, I took the boat out and it ran really smoothly with no vibration anywhere on the RPM scale.

Now, I will take the new ones I bought to see if they are bent. If so, I will call the supplier to take them through what happened. If they are still to the specs they sent them to me with, if I pull the boat this fall for any reason, I will get the props lapped on as Bud and Viper suggested.

Thanks for everyone’s help on this. Looks like I dodged a bullet. And thanks for the help with understanding the steps that should be taken with props.

[km1125]

I am sure your port side was not missing the keyway. You would have known that as soon as you put a load on it... the shaft would have just spun inside the prop!!

If the prop was hard to put on, then it was likely put on wrong. Perhaps the key was too far back and holding/binding on the prop.

I never understood why folks recommend replacing they key. If it fits good, then there shouldn't be any reason to replace it. All it does it prevent the prop from spinning on the shaft, it has nothing to do with fitment or alignment unless it's been damaged or improperly installed.

I would bet when the diver installed your new props they weren't properly on or had dirt between the shaft and the prop.

[Helmsman]

Qr Bbpost I am sure your port side was not missing the keyway. You would have known that as soon as you put a load on it... the shaft would have just spun inside the prop!!

If the prop was hard to put on, then it was likely put on wrong. Perhaps the key was too far back and holding/binding on the prop.

I never understood why folks recommend replacing they key. If it fits good, then there shouldn't be any reason to replace it. All it does it prevent the prop from spinning on the shaft, it has nothing to do with fitment or alignment unless it's been damaged or improperly installed.

I would bet when the diver installed your new props they weren't properly on or had dirt between the shaft and the prop.

Maybe. We will see when I get them scanned. Or at least confirm or eliminate that they are bent.

[tomschauer]

Qr Bbpost It's a must under some circumstances. The scary thing is how few techs even know they're supposed to do it at all.

Its not their fault as I am sure you know. Whoever hires them should train them properly or have them trained properly so they and their employer can be successful and develop a good reputation. Good repour = consistent $

[Viper]

So a couples things on that Tom, and unfortunately this seems to be the direction the industry is heading;

Qr Bbpost....Whoever hires them should train them properly.....

That's great in a perfect world and the way it USED to be, however these days it seems you don't have to have ANY marina or boat experience to run a service department in the marine industry. The days of a technician going to his superior for repair advise, bounce ideas off of, or get a second opinion and brain storm over a fault or failure together are over. They have their tech coworkers to rely on and that's it besides OEM help desks.

Qr Bbpost....have them trained properly....

Easy to do as long as the training centers are close by but not the case for most jurisdictions. If it means long distance travel and accommodations, training becomes a low priority for most because of the expense involved. Management also has no guaranty that the technician won't move on to a different employer after they've invested heavily in their training. The new thing is to have technicians sign a contract to give up their first child should they leave the company after all the training. I get their concern on that but there are other ways to retain an employee. A little respect and consideration would go a long way. This was common place in the automotive industry but their technicians got smart and are now asking potential employers to sign contracts instead. What is discussed and the promises made at an interview for employment is rarely how things actually turn out after a while.

If the mindset of the people sitting behind the desks of this industry does't change soon, it's in for a world of hurt. And the only hint of problems for the average boater will be increased costs, repair recalls, disputes, and waiting lists.

I can write a book on this stuff

[tomschauer]

I forget who, but a CEO from a fortune 500 company who was insistent on a comprehensive training program for their employees was asked by a senior VP " What if we spend all this money on training them and they leave?" The CEO responded, "What if we don't train them and they stay?"